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	<title>Comments on: Why Should We Care About Parallel Processing?</title>
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		<title>By: A rush to big-data programming &#171; SoftTalk &#8211; multicore and parallel programming</title>
		<link>http://www.thevirtualcircle.com/2010/01/why-should-we-care-about-parallel-processing/comment-page-1/#comment-2358</link>
		<dc:creator>A rush to big-data programming &#171; SoftTalk &#8211; multicore and parallel programming</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Apr 2011 13:18:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thevirtualcircle.com/?p=5575#comment-2358</guid>
		<description>[...] and this isn’t meant to be detraction, I’ve noted one comment from a developer who says that as good as Pervasive Datarush is, it is essentially a tool that [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] and this isn’t meant to be detraction, I’ve noted one comment from a developer who says that as good as Pervasive Datarush is, it is essentially a tool that [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Dataflow Programming: A Scalable Data-Centric Approach to Parallelism</title>
		<link>http://www.thevirtualcircle.com/2010/01/why-should-we-care-about-parallel-processing/comment-page-1/#comment-2102</link>
		<dc:creator>Dataflow Programming: A Scalable Data-Centric Approach to Parallelism</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Jan 2011 13:23:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thevirtualcircle.com/?p=5575#comment-2102</guid>
		<description>[...] blog gives a nice summary of why parallel processing is important.  Hardware Support for Parallelism [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] blog gives a nice summary of why parallel processing is important.  Hardware Support for Parallelism [...]</p>
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		<title>By: timnegris</title>
		<link>http://www.thevirtualcircle.com/2010/01/why-should-we-care-about-parallel-processing/comment-page-1/#comment-696</link>
		<dc:creator>timnegris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Jan 2010 17:30:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thevirtualcircle.com/?p=5575#comment-696</guid>
		<description>Peter, I am with you in the belief that for parallel *computing* to deliver on its theoretical promises, we must all, to borrow an old Apple ad phrase, &quot;think different&quot;.  And, as I love &quot;nosebleed&quot; programming languages as much as anybody - the first one I learned was APL and the second was LISP, I cannot disagree that different thinking must be accompanied by different programming notions and I am very happy to lately see some renewed vigor in parallel programming research at Carnegie-Mellon, IBM and elsewhere.  There are many categories of computing challenges, including advanced mathematics, encryption, and others, that will require all you prescribe and more to benefit from parallelism.

You are also quite right to point out that I was indeed talking about *applied* parallelism and particularly in the realm of ETL, Data Mining and Predictive Analytics.  These are problems where even an admittedly primordial tools-oriented approach like DataRush that gets good results should be considered a great leap forward for parallelism at large, for a few reasons.  It gets a large number of commercial programmers, vendors, analysts, and journalists learning and thinking about parallel computing.  It gets a large number of companies spending money on parallel computing solutions.  And, it renews everybody&#039;s resolve to address a broader range of applications and to seek more fundamental technical solutions, i.e. parallel languages and algorithms.  If, in the process, Pervasive bloodies the noses of their larger, less innovative rivals, all the better for its bottom line and for the satisfaction of those of us who root for the underdog.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Peter, I am with you in the belief that for parallel *computing* to deliver on its theoretical promises, we must all, to borrow an old Apple ad phrase, &#8220;think different&#8221;.  And, as I love &#8220;nosebleed&#8221; programming languages as much as anybody &#8211; the first one I learned was APL and the second was LISP, I cannot disagree that different thinking must be accompanied by different programming notions and I am very happy to lately see some renewed vigor in parallel programming research at Carnegie-Mellon, IBM and elsewhere.  There are many categories of computing challenges, including advanced mathematics, encryption, and others, that will require all you prescribe and more to benefit from parallelism.</p>
<p>You are also quite right to point out that I was indeed talking about *applied* parallelism and particularly in the realm of ETL, Data Mining and Predictive Analytics.  These are problems where even an admittedly primordial tools-oriented approach like DataRush that gets good results should be considered a great leap forward for parallelism at large, for a few reasons.  It gets a large number of commercial programmers, vendors, analysts, and journalists learning and thinking about parallel computing.  It gets a large number of companies spending money on parallel computing solutions.  And, it renews everybody&#8217;s resolve to address a broader range of applications and to seek more fundamental technical solutions, i.e. parallel languages and algorithms.  If, in the process, Pervasive bloodies the noses of their larger, less innovative rivals, all the better for its bottom line and for the satisfaction of those of us who root for the underdog.</p>
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		<title>By: Peter Dzwig</title>
		<link>http://www.thevirtualcircle.com/2010/01/why-should-we-care-about-parallel-processing/comment-page-1/#comment-695</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter Dzwig</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Jan 2010 10:21:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thevirtualcircle.com/?p=5575#comment-695</guid>
		<description>I agree, parallel processing has been hidden by the processor vendors up to now. But the real issues are coming - if the speed ratchet is to continue then the only way that it will happen is by increasing the number of cores on a die and possibly building 3D stacks too. That will have the effect of changing the environment in which programs run beyond recognition.

There are only two ways as far as I can see that parallelism* will actually work: firstly that **everyone** learns to program in parallel, or that there is some way of &quot;hiding&quot;  the hardware from the user. A sort of &quot;virtualisation&quot; (of the virtual machine kind) but much more advanced and much more sophisticated. BUT while the former is a unlikely to happen for any number of reasons, even if we go down the latter route in order to be able to use multicores properly we are going to have to change our mindsets and learn to think in ways that are new.

Of course there will tools to help but that won&#039;t obviate the need to change our approach to how we think about programming. Pervasive Datarush is a tool that has already shown what parallelism can do for you just by thinking about the program and restructuring from a conceptual point of view. It also goes a long way towards doing some virtualisation, although not really in the sense that I meant in the last para. The speed ups that it has delivered already are remarkable (thousand-fold and better), but these are in part because of the nature of the problems that they have addressed.

I think that what you are looking for Tim is tools. They do exist, to some extent Datarush is one such, but at present toolkits are only nibbling at the edge. DBs are naturally parallel to some degree or another, to be more precise DB usage is largely parallel and the apps that sit on top can be replicated to run on multiple cores; a large class of other problems are more difficult to parallelise. The big issue comes with people&#039;s assumption that &quot;Oh those processor guys will give me a solution to handle parallelism&quot;. WRONG. So far we have been looking at the problem for well over thirty years and no-one has come up with an approach that will lead to high quality code. It is one of the big problems in computing. There are people who claim to be able to unroll any loop and substitute parallel code, but in even where they do the code that they come up with is far from optimal in one sense or another.

Thinking differently requires different frameworks to work in, so I disagree about languages, I think that the provision of new languages may be a component of any true transition to parallelism.

I very much agree with you both about BI (writ broad). The interesting thing about parallel this time around is that last time BI wasn&#039;t something that really existed in say the 1980s on the scale that we have it now, far less predictive analytics and datamining. The DB companies are principally responsible for that.

Now here is a conundrum: could it be that the pressure from real commercial applications such as BI will this time round turn out to be the driver of tools and technologies for a parallel revolution. The market is clearly much larger than any meaningfully addressed by parallelism before?

*NOTE: Before anyone says &quot;What about Cloud?&quot;, this isn&#039;t the same as cloud computing. This isn&#039;t &quot;the same sort&quot; of parallelism. This is on-chip parallelism where we are talking on-chip access and on-chip comms between hundreds of cores. The issues are different.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree, parallel processing has been hidden by the processor vendors up to now. But the real issues are coming &#8211; if the speed ratchet is to continue then the only way that it will happen is by increasing the number of cores on a die and possibly building 3D stacks too. That will have the effect of changing the environment in which programs run beyond recognition.</p>
<p>There are only two ways as far as I can see that parallelism* will actually work: firstly that **everyone** learns to program in parallel, or that there is some way of &#8220;hiding&#8221;  the hardware from the user. A sort of &#8220;virtualisation&#8221; (of the virtual machine kind) but much more advanced and much more sophisticated. BUT while the former is a unlikely to happen for any number of reasons, even if we go down the latter route in order to be able to use multicores properly we are going to have to change our mindsets and learn to think in ways that are new.</p>
<p>Of course there will tools to help but that won&#8217;t obviate the need to change our approach to how we think about programming. Pervasive Datarush is a tool that has already shown what parallelism can do for you just by thinking about the program and restructuring from a conceptual point of view. It also goes a long way towards doing some virtualisation, although not really in the sense that I meant in the last para. The speed ups that it has delivered already are remarkable (thousand-fold and better), but these are in part because of the nature of the problems that they have addressed.</p>
<p>I think that what you are looking for Tim is tools. They do exist, to some extent Datarush is one such, but at present toolkits are only nibbling at the edge. DBs are naturally parallel to some degree or another, to be more precise DB usage is largely parallel and the apps that sit on top can be replicated to run on multiple cores; a large class of other problems are more difficult to parallelise. The big issue comes with people&#8217;s assumption that &#8220;Oh those processor guys will give me a solution to handle parallelism&#8221;. WRONG. So far we have been looking at the problem for well over thirty years and no-one has come up with an approach that will lead to high quality code. It is one of the big problems in computing. There are people who claim to be able to unroll any loop and substitute parallel code, but in even where they do the code that they come up with is far from optimal in one sense or another.</p>
<p>Thinking differently requires different frameworks to work in, so I disagree about languages, I think that the provision of new languages may be a component of any true transition to parallelism.</p>
<p>I very much agree with you both about BI (writ broad). The interesting thing about parallel this time around is that last time BI wasn&#8217;t something that really existed in say the 1980s on the scale that we have it now, far less predictive analytics and datamining. The DB companies are principally responsible for that.</p>
<p>Now here is a conundrum: could it be that the pressure from real commercial applications such as BI will this time round turn out to be the driver of tools and technologies for a parallel revolution. The market is clearly much larger than any meaningfully addressed by parallelism before?</p>
<p>*NOTE: Before anyone says &#8220;What about Cloud?&#8221;, this isn&#8217;t the same as cloud computing. This isn&#8217;t &#8220;the same sort&#8221; of parallelism. This is on-chip parallelism where we are talking on-chip access and on-chip comms between hundreds of cores. The issues are different.</p>
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		<title>By: Tweets that mention Why Should We Care About Parallel Processing? &#124; The Virtual Circle -- Topsy.com</title>
		<link>http://www.thevirtualcircle.com/2010/01/why-should-we-care-about-parallel-processing/comment-page-1/#comment-694</link>
		<dc:creator>Tweets that mention Why Should We Care About Parallel Processing? &#124; The Virtual Circle -- Topsy.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Jan 2010 03:16:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thevirtualcircle.com/?p=5575#comment-694</guid>
		<description>[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by ✍ Robin Bloor ✍, ✍ Robin Bloor ✍, Dave Menninger, Lauren Bishop Vranch, SoftTalk Blogger and others. SoftTalk Blogger said: RT @robinbloor: Why Should We Care About Parallel Processing? http://ow.ly/10BN8 #tech [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by ✍ Robin Bloor ✍, ✍ Robin Bloor ✍, Dave Menninger, Lauren Bishop Vranch, SoftTalk Blogger and others. SoftTalk Blogger said: RT @robinbloor: Why Should We Care About Parallel Processing? <a href="http://ow.ly/10BN8" rel="nofollow">http://ow.ly/10BN8</a> #tech [...]</p>
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		<title>By: timnegris</title>
		<link>http://www.thevirtualcircle.com/2010/01/why-should-we-care-about-parallel-processing/comment-page-1/#comment-693</link>
		<dc:creator>timnegris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Jan 2010 22:53:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thevirtualcircle.com/?p=5575#comment-693</guid>
		<description>I agree, and you are right to emphasize parallel programming and not just parallelism.

First, the processor manufacturers have done little to dispel the widely-held misunderstanding that multi-core automatically brings the benefits of parallelism.  It does for certain low-level operating system functions, but not for the procedural program logic of things like list processing or log parsing.  For that sort of thing, new programming is required.

Second, Oracle, DB2 and other database systems are themselves &quot;parallelized&quot; such that indigenous operations occurring entirely within the database automatically gain performance benefits as a result.  But, in areas like ETL, data warehousing and mining, data integration, and the like, the data sources and sinks are seldom of a single brand or in a single system.  To get the benefits of parallelism in these contexts, new programming is required.

But, parallel programming has been in itself a big challenge.  Doing parallel programming with raw coding in standard languages is not easy to do.  Elusive bugs, race conditions and other dire events are very hard to avoid.  Alternatively, doing parallel programming with unfamiliar, specialized languages requires a steep learning curve and brings unique systems integration challenges.

It seems that one your &quot;10 companies to watch in 2010&quot;, Pervasive Software is running this problem to ground with their DataRush product, which provides a highly &quot;data-aware&quot; parallel Java framework and run-time engine for high performance ETL, data mining and predictive analytics.  Their benchmarks are smokin&#039; and it looks like it is pretty easy to program.  Worth a look for anyone with a need for speed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree, and you are right to emphasize parallel programming and not just parallelism.</p>
<p>First, the processor manufacturers have done little to dispel the widely-held misunderstanding that multi-core automatically brings the benefits of parallelism.  It does for certain low-level operating system functions, but not for the procedural program logic of things like list processing or log parsing.  For that sort of thing, new programming is required.</p>
<p>Second, Oracle, DB2 and other database systems are themselves &#8220;parallelized&#8221; such that indigenous operations occurring entirely within the database automatically gain performance benefits as a result.  But, in areas like ETL, data warehousing and mining, data integration, and the like, the data sources and sinks are seldom of a single brand or in a single system.  To get the benefits of parallelism in these contexts, new programming is required.</p>
<p>But, parallel programming has been in itself a big challenge.  Doing parallel programming with raw coding in standard languages is not easy to do.  Elusive bugs, race conditions and other dire events are very hard to avoid.  Alternatively, doing parallel programming with unfamiliar, specialized languages requires a steep learning curve and brings unique systems integration challenges.</p>
<p>It seems that one your &#8220;10 companies to watch in 2010&#8243;, Pervasive Software is running this problem to ground with their DataRush product, which provides a highly &#8220;data-aware&#8221; parallel Java framework and run-time engine for high performance ETL, data mining and predictive analytics.  Their benchmarks are smokin&#8217; and it looks like it is pretty easy to program.  Worth a look for anyone with a need for speed.</p>
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